Is Suicide Murder?

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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:06 am

I would say it is more selfish to stay alive. Isn't the very definition of suicide the rejection of your life? Isn't that denying yourself to the point of death?
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Countess on Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:05 am

Suicide is murder. It's stamping out a life God created. So no, never right.
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:23 am

Is it murder? Murder is the intentional act of killing someone else. Suicide is the killing of yourself. Very different.
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Countess on Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:12 pm

Yes, why wouldn't it be? It's murdering someone (you) that God hasn't chosen to take from this earth. But of course, you believe we can go to war and kill whoever, sooo
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:32 pm

Because according to the definition of murder, murder is the intentional killing of another human being, not yourself.

Did I ever say we can kill, whoever? Nope
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Is Suicide Murder?

Post by kait on Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:43 pm

@Countess wrote:Yes, why wouldn't it be? It's murdering someone (you) that God hasn't chosen to take from this earth. But of course, you believe we can go to war and kill whoever, sooo
So it's not possible that God would choose to take people from this earth via suicide? It's not possible that could be part of his plan or "will" or whatever?
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Countess on Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:47 am

Because according to the definition of murder, murder is the intentional killing of another human being, not yourself. 
Is it? Well it's still "quenching life." Give it whatever term you wish. It's taking matters into our own hands, instead of trusting God. 


So it's not possible that God would choose to take people from this earth via suicide? It's not possible that could be part of his plan or "will" or whatever?
Obviously yes, people leave this earth through suicide, so God allows it. But this doesn't mean He approves it.
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:51 am

Yes, look it up in the dictionary.
Murder definition "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

By another. You cannot kill yourself and have it have been "by another".

If it is apart of his plan, why wouldn't he approve? Isn't his plan perfect?
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Countess on Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:15 pm

Before we go any further with this, what does your Church believe about suicide?
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:22 pm

This is official Church teaching on suicide.
CCC #2280-2283 wrote:
2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Also I wouldn't say it is my church per say, but rather just the Catholic Church. I am a member of the Catholic Church but in no way can I take ownership of it. To say it is mine would be to mean I have control over it or I started it which just isn't true.
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by War Doctor on Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:56 pm

So this seems to contradict your view
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:02 pm

I never said my view I only questioned Countess' view. I personally agree with the Catechism I am just trying to get Countess to clarify her views. Also suicide still isn't murder. That does not contradict this statement.
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Countess on Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:55 am

So I suppose suicide isn't "murder" but it is still endings ones life. Its wrong and I don't really see any way for repentance afterward.
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Re: Is Suicide Murder?

Post by Jehoshaphat on Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:35 am

I agree it is wrong and there isn't a chance of repentance of life because our life is our only chance for repentance. That isn't to say that all who commit suicide are going to hell. For two reasons, first we can never say for sure anyone is in hell and we cannot condemn anyone to hell, second the culpability of someone who commits suicide can be lessened by mental illness or other factors.
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