Public School Bathrooms

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Public School Bathrooms

Post by Isaiah the Ox on Thu May 26, 2016 2:53 pm

I don't keep up with current events very well at all...  Anxious But, my pastor recently mentioned the new decree stating schools must allow transgender people to use bathrooms that match their gender identity. (Huffington Post Article)

My pastor also quoted this response from Franklin Graham:

Franklin Graham wrote:Who does President Barack Obama think he is? The sultan of Washington? Does he think he can just make a “decree” and we will bow down and simply obey? The decree he released today says that all schools across the country have to allow students to choose the restrooms and locker rooms according to “their internal sense of gender.” If schools don’t comply, he threatens loss of funding and lawsuits from the federal government. What about the privacy and protection of all the other students? Isn’t this discrimination against all of them? This opens up bathrooms to sexual predators and perverts. A decree does not carry the force of law–that's the job of Congress. The president obviously must have no fear of God, who made us and created us male and female. I hope that school districts across this nation will defy President Obama and his administration’s radical progressive agenda to promote and advance the sin of homosexuality and the LGBT agenda.

I am pretty sure I don't agree with most of what Graham said... like... at all. But, what are your thoughts? On the new ruling, and also on the conservative response?
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by War Doctor on Thu May 26, 2016 4:10 pm

I don't get this claim that this law opens up bathrooms to sexual predators and perverts, as though they were just waiting for this law change before being predators or perverts. Also there have been countries, states, and cities that have had similar laws with no increase in sexual assaults. 

But in any case I don't see how these laws are enforceable.
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Pound Cake on Thu May 26, 2016 8:57 pm

That you could open bathrooms to absolutely anyone and not have sexual predation result is severely questionable, War Doctor. What states passed this law with no ill effects? Who got the the stats? If it was, say, Pew I'll consider that these laws may in fact be acceptable so far as predation is concerned.

I am not, however, convinced that they are at all sexually practical. When laws like these are considered, people commonly object that opposite genders will of course see each other nude in a completely open setting as a result. The objections people come up with to that obvious complaint include such ridiculous answers as, "No one really uses locker rooms anymore"!
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by War Doctor on Thu May 26, 2016 10:14 pm

This isn't opening up bathrooms to absolutely anyone. It is saying that people can use the bathrooms of their gender, even if that gender is not the one on their birth certificate. 

Colorado passed a bill allowing transgender individuals to use the bathroom of their identified gender in 2008. http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533 

New Mexico in 2009. http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/NewMexico.pdf

Connecticut in 2011. http://www.baywindows.com/conn-governor-signs-transgender-protections-into-law-121897

As have Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont. This has been around for eight years.
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Pound Cake on Thu May 26, 2016 10:34 pm

Yes it is. There's really very little to it in say, schools. You basically just tell the teacher or principal you require the right to enter either bathroom due to your orientation. (At least, that's the case in some laws being pushed.)

Provided those articles are unbiased, a lack of reported cases provides very little evidence there are no cases. Sexual crimes are some of the very least reported crimes. Still, you have somewhat of a case.

The question of outright sex crime aside, it's simply irrational to please a minority at the expense of the vast majority. A little girl shouldn't have to share a bathroom with a man against her will. And opposite genders shouldn't have to see each other changing in locker rooms. Surely all this is obvious.
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by War Doctor on Thu May 26, 2016 10:44 pm

Okay, so how would you handle a transgender student's bathroom issues? 

The articles are simply pointing to laws like this being in place since 2008. Since I can't prove a negative the burden of proof is on you to show the impact of these laws. But I wonder what you think is going to happen? If some went into a bathroom and assaulted someone they couldn't get away with that by claiming to be transgender. So is your argument that these people who would assault or be voyeurs in these bathrooms have simply been waiting for this law to pass and wouldn't have done anything without this law?

So what do you think should be done? Should we pass laws that say you have to use the bathroom/locker room of the gender on your birth certificate?
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Sola Scriptura on Sat May 28, 2016 11:46 am

Graham is THE BEST. He's actually praying for our country to return it to our CHRISTIAN roots.

Why do we have to bow to these groups that are refusing to acknowledge their God-given GENDER? Doesn't the government acknowledge birth certificates? Why do they now make a law that says the certificates are wrong?
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Isaiah the Ox on Sat May 28, 2016 6:47 pm

Ok, so I guess my issue would be, what the purpose of gendered bathrooms was for, in the first place. The ideas I came up with were:

-so one room could have urinals, and the other just stalls
-to keep the "privates" (literally) of each gender a secret from each other
-to keep the two genders that are usually sexually attracted to each other separate, so there is no unneeded temptation
-to force each human to decide whether they are "male" or "female"

Now, my idea would be that the second and third ones are the most real reasons for gendered bathrooms. The second guess would still apply to transgendered people, and if "male" and "female" signs are not inclusive enough, they could be changed to "this genital" and "that genital." The third reason I came up with is a bit tricky, with all the different sexual preferences. I guess if it comes down to bisexual people, they'd basically need a room to them self if it was about sexual temptations. (I'm not saying just because they are bisexual/transgendered/straight they would be promiscuous, but it is possible in every human)
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by War Doctor on Sat May 28, 2016 6:52 pm

Okay so you seem to think the issue is sexual temptation when it's about privacy. 

I think we just go with single unit bathrooms.
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Isaiah the Ox on Sat May 28, 2016 7:53 pm

..... I said these were just ideas I had and listed them. Of course you pick the idea you disagree with the most and claim that's what I firmly believe.

Is there any practicality in that? Especially the way public bathrooms are already built?
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by War Doctor on Sat May 28, 2016 8:19 pm

Forgive me for the mistake. I assumed they were the positions you held. I see from re-reading that I was wrong. 

Well clearly how public bathrooms are already built won't work in the future so why not transition to single units for the future? 

But what is your solution for the here and now?
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Isaiah the Ox on Sat May 28, 2016 8:36 pm

Everyone reads me wrong. *shrugs* Cool

I didn't offer a solution. I was just mentioning another side of this issue. If privacy is the main point of bathrooms, as you say, then the best thing to do would be to say people with the same body parts should use the same bathroom. As it would lead to, hopefully, the most private and safe option that we have now. Especially when showers are involved, I don't see why one would want to go into a different shower. I would see it very dangerous for a teenage transgender girl to go naked into a shower room of teenage boys. Or vice versa. Even if nothing sexual goes on, I don't see how any parents would want that happening.
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Re: Public School Bathrooms

Post by Audrey on Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:40 pm

Sigh. Honestly, I wish gender-neutral bathrooms were more common, so these problems would be avoided.

Frankly, if you identify as a girl AND are at least kind of look like a girl, go for it, use the girl's bathroom. That's the main thing that annoys me; I know a girl who is biologically male, but she isn't out to everyone in her life so she doesn't try and pass for a girl. She uses the guys bathroom because she still looks like a guy to most people. 

Also, it's a bit annoying to me that people are worried about male pedophiles all of a sudden going into the GIRLS bathroom. You do realize those same pedophiles were in the same bathroom as your sons, right? Also, women can be pedophiles too.
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